Knowing By the Spirit, Part II—Dear Debbie

In response to my post entitled Knowing By the Spirit (which can be viewed here), my friend, Debbie, said:

Jen - you said in this post: "Without an atonement, there could be no mercy to satisfy justice, and we would need to pay for our own sins. But, without repentance, the atonement cannot take effect on our salvation. So, although Christ has suffered for our sins, we are still held accountable for our own actions—for our “works” in this life."

So (correct me if I've interpreted you wrong :) ),
We sin - we create a debt that needs to be paid.
Christ suffers for our sins - He pays our debt.
We repent - we accept Christ's payment of our debt - the atonement takes effect in our salvation.

So at this point our 'account' is zero - since Christ paid our debts. But you still say that we have to account for our sins? How so, if our account balance is zero because of the Saviors' atonement?

Another point you made earlier in this post was in reference to the scientific method. In this method, as you stated, we start with a truth. And in science a truth is an indisputable, solid, unchanging factor. It is unsettling to me that the 'truth' you are basing everything else off of is a 'warm feeling' or 'burning of the bosom', etc. This is definitely something that is disputable. For example, many people feel good ('warm') about a lot of things that aren't true. In fact, people have died for things they felt good about, but weren't absolute truth.

And I most definitely love your point about absolute truth. Truth is truth, it doesn't change in regards to what we believe, or what we think.

The Atonement and Accountability

Thank you, Debbie, for continuing this discussion.  Let me first address the atonement and our accountability as I understand it.  But, before I do so, I would like to point out that there is so much depth to the atonement and how it applies to our lives that I couldn’t possibly do it justice in a single post.  It is so much more than simply paying a debt for our sins (for example, it brings us resurrection, regardless of sin).  So, I will try not to stray too much from the question at hand, though some additional insight on the atonement may be necessary to answer your question satisfactorily. 

I believe that I am understanding your question, and I think it stems in large part from a matter of semantics.  I would not say that you have “interpreted [me] wrong” per se, but more accurately “interpreted my explanation incompletely.”  I think the breakdown has oversimplified the atonement and how it works.  While simple explanation can be a good building block in coming to understand a concept, there is always more depth to clarify any understanding. 

While Christ’s atonement does pay the debt created by our sins, it also allows Him the ability to judge us righteously and apply mercy appropriately.  (For that matter, it also takes effect in our lives not only as a saving grace, but also as a comforting grace—bringing us comfort amidst our trials.)  Furthermore, while repentance does, indeed, include “[accepting] Christ’s payment of our debt,” it is also so much more than that.  Repentance also involves a change in one’s self.  It is not simply stating that we have sinned and that we would like Christ’s atonement to make up for it.  If we do not change, we continue to sin.  And, if we continue to sin, we will not be able to live in the presence of the Lord.  (For that matter, if we continue to sin, we would not want to live in the presence of the Lord.  We would be more comfortable living with those like ourselves, which in itself I see as merciful.  But that’s a discussion for another time.) 

So, if we have not “changed”, our account is not “zero”, even though the Savior has performed the atonement.  We are accountable for our sins, meaning that justice will have its demands on us if “we” do not make that change.  It is not Christ’s atonement alone that accounts for our sins, but also our own change within (of course, the atonement can also assist us in that change).  Similarly, even if we do change, it does not take away the fact that we sinned in the first place.  So, without Christ’s atonement, our own personal change, alone, cannot allow mercy to satisfy those demands of justice either.  So, in this sense, both we and He account for our sins.  I hope that answers your question.  Please let me know if you need any more clarification.

The Scientific Method and the Confirming Spirit

Now, I would like to address your questions regarding the scientific method.  As you described it, “in science a truth is an indisputable, solid, unchanging factor.”  Yes, that is true in respect to the ultimate knowledge we are trying to obtain.  Like I said, truth is truth.  But in science, and in faith, we are always approaching that whole truth.  We are applying bits of truth that we have acquired to discover more truth.  However, the reason “it is unsettling to [you] that the 'truth' [you believe I am] basing everything else off of is a 'warm feeling' or 'burning of the bosom', etc” is simply because you have misunderstood my explanation of where spiritual confirmation comes into play. 

Truth is acquired by applying those truths we have already come to know.  We use a bit of truth to develop a hypothesis upon which to perform a study.  Whether the study refutes or supports that hypothesis determines what additional bit of truth we acquire.  It is at that point, that one can turn to the Spirit to confirm that new understanding (of course, the spirit can also guide us in the formation of hypotheses that will help lead to greater amounts of knowledge, if we so desire).  The confirming spirit of the Holy Ghost is simply additional evidence—added to that which we have already acquired through the scientific process.  Like I said in the last post on Knowing by the Spirit, it is like a teacher confirming that your work is correct.  Your work may be correct, whether or not a teacher confirms it, but that confirmation gives you that additional evidence, and brings efficiency to the learning process.  And, likewise, the direction of the teacher throughout the process can also improve learning efficiency.

Additionally, our recognition of that Spiritual confirmation is dependent not only on whether or not it is present, but also on whether or not we have developed the skills to recognize it accurately and differentiate it from the desires of our own heart.  As you say, “many people feel good ('warm') about a lot of things that aren't true.”  I would point out that the “warm feeling,” or “burning bosom,” or however one describes a confirming spirit or spiritual prompting, is not simply feeling good (or even “warm”) about something—it is so much more than that.  A person can feel “good” about a thing, simply because they desire it.  But, as we come to recognize how the spirit speaks to us individually (as it is unique for each individual—some even physically hear a voice), then we gain a greater ability to accurately recognize it for what it is. 

The way I explained it in the footnotes of the last “Knowing by the Spirit” post was that “as we receive and heed promptings, we become better able to recognize them, more attune to them, just as a musician becomes more attune to his instrument the more he plays it.”  A musician may recognize what instrument they are hearing/playing, but not yet be able to distinguish the note or appreciate the tone that is being played on that instrument.  That ability comes through experience for many (and is a God-given gift for others—just as is recognition of the Spirit and its promptings and confirmations).  Even the great prophet, Samuel, did not recognize the voice of the Lord when he first heard it.  He supposed it to be the voice of his master, Eli, as he had never before heard the voice of the Lord.  But, with the initial direction of Eli, and through personal experience, he learned to distinguish and identify that voice, later becoming that great prophet.  Interestingly enough, your unsettled feeling with regard to truth and a “warm feeling” could be, in itself, another example of knowing by the spirit.  You did not understand how “everything” could be based off a warm feeling and the spirit gave you an “unsettling” feeling to confirm to your mind that the way you had understood the concept was not correct.

I hope this helps, Debbie.  This day has been crazy and I didn’t have a lot of time to write.  But, I hope I was able to communicate clearly, nonetheless.  Please let me know if you have anything else to add to the discussion or any more questions.  Hope things are going well for you.  We miss you guys!

Seven Years of Famine--Applying the scriptures to our lives Part II

I was reading in Genesis today about Joseph.  I read about his brothers selling him into Egypt, and about Potipher's wife falsely accusing him of forcing himself on her, and about his time in prison.  I continued to read about how he interpreted dreams for his fellow prisoners and how, when the Pharaoh had dreams that no one could interpret for him, he called upon Joseph to interpret his dreams.  Pharaoh describes his two dreams, in the one the seven fatfleshed kine are devoured by the seven thinfleshed kine, and in the other, the seven withered ears of corn devour the seven full and good ears.  Joseph interprets the dreams, explaining that the land will see seven years of plenty followed by seven years of famine.  He instructs the Pharaoh to spend the seven years of plenty preparing a storehouse to allow for provisions during the seven years of famine.  After which, Pharaoh makes him ruler over all of Egypt.  Of course, during the famine, Joseph's brothers come to buy grain from the Pharaoh's storehouse.  At which point, Joseph provides for them, even returning them their own money and giving them even more.  Finally, he reveals to them his identity and they rejoice in their reunion.

Oh, the many marvelous lessons there are in these few chapters.  As I read this account, my first thought was about how we pass through times in life of spiritual plenty and famine.  And how we need to spend our times of spiritual plenty, filling our souls with spiritual food so that we might withstand the times of spiritual famine, when they come.

I thought also about the character and trials of Joseph.  Here is a man, whose own brothers plotted his murder and then sold him into slavery.  Does he live in bitterness?  Does he curse God for not stopping this from happening?  No!  He lives the law of the Lord in such grandeur that he gains favor in the sight of his master, Potipher, and is given dominion over all that Potipher has.  Then, again, Joseph is betrayed.  This time by Potipher's wife and consequently thrown into prison.  Again, does he live in bitterness?  No!  He serves his fellow prisoners and even gains favor of the prison guard and is given reign over the prison.  By serving his fellow prisoners as an interpreter of dreams, he is made known unto the Pharaoh.  And, then, again gains favor and is given dominion over the entire kingdom.  Then, does he seek revenge, in his powerful position, against Potipher's wife or against his brothers?  Does he even withhold anything from them?  No!  He gives his brothers all they ask for and even returns their money unto them and goes on to give them a place to live in Egypt where they will be better provided for!  And, after revieling to his brethren his identity, when his brothers cry at his feet begging forgiveness for what they did to him, he not only shows forgiveness, but tells them that it was the Lord's plan:

"Now therefore be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither: for God did send me before you to preserve life". 

As I reflected on Joseph's character, it occurred to me that any circumstances of life can be made a blessing by the Lord, if we but choose to live as He has taught us.  We can choose to face our trials and think "woe is me" for having to endure them.  Or, we can choose to really "endure" them well--to serve those around us, no matter whom they may be.  And, if we do so, we will be blessed.  Perhaps not in the way we might want (Joseph's trials were not taken from him), but in ways far greater (Joseph was able to use his trials to save the lives of likely thousands of people as well as gain dominion over the kingdom).  Joseph truly was a wise steward--a wise steward of the land, a wise steward of his family, a wise steward of his time, a wise steward of his agency, a wise steward of his circumstances, a wise steward of his knowledge . . . .  I hope that I can become a wise steward like unto Joseph, so that I might endure and provide during the seven years of famine I face in my life.